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“Please help me persuade Crosscountry to change the door systems on their voyager trains!” – Alex Fenlon

Description

Alex Fenlon

Get rid of the button, and put in pressure mats or door sensors like you have at supermarkets.

Problem History

  • 1 Alex Fenlon reported the issue on FixMyTransport. close 09:06 30 Aug 2011
  • 2 Alex Fenlon wrote to Crosscountry close 09:06 30 Aug 2011

    Here is the letter that Alex Fenlon wrote.

    Getting Trapped In Doors

    I got trapped in the doors between carriages yesterday on one of your voyager trains. Is there any chance you can fit a pressure mat or an infra-red sensor instead - as trying to push a button and with people blocking doors doesnt make things helpful.

  • 3 Customer Relations responded to Alex Fenlon close 09:11 30 Aug 2011
    THIS IS AN AUTOMATED EMAIL FROM CROSSCOUNTRY

    Thank you for your email.  We will reply again soon with a
    unique reference number.  We aim to respond in full with 10
    working days.  If your email is urgent then please call us on
    08447 369 123. 

    Frequently Asked Questions: 

    Where can I get a cheaper train ticket?

    [1]www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk has many tips, tricks and tools
    to help you find the best deal.  We offer the same tickets as
    other ticket websites, such as theTrainline.com, for all
    journeys in Great Britain.  We also offer free methods of
    delivery (e-ticket or self service collection if e-ticket is not
    available) and we donÂ*t charge a booking fee. 

    How do I apply for a refund?

    If you havenÂ*t used your ticket and you booked it online with
    crosscountrytrains.co.uk just log onto My CrossCountry or a
    create an account using the same email address you entered when
    you booked your ticket.  From here, go to your booking history
    and select refund.  Remember, all Advance tickets are
    non-refundable.  Alternatively call us on 0844 811 0124 and say
    Â*existing bookingÂ*. 

    How do I change my ticket?

    You can change the date and time of your journey by paying the
    difference between yours and the next available fare by calling
    us on 0844 811 0124.  When you call just say Â*existing
    bookingÂ*.  We will charge a £10 administration fee for this
    service which we will deduct from the cost of the ticket you
    currently hold. 

    My train was late or cancelled Â* can I claim compensation?

    Yes, if CrossCountry caused a delay to your journey because your
    train was late or cancelled you can make a claim for
    compensation under our Delay Repay scheme.  Simply forward your
    original email to us with scanned copies of your tickets
    including your journey details and your full postal address. 
    For more information about delay repay click here:
    [2]http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Site...

    References

    Visible links
    1. http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/
    2. http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Site...
  • 4 Dave H commented close 01:53 02 Sep 2011

    These trains also operate with Virgin, and a modified version operates with East Midlands Trains (Meridian). I though the push buttons were on both sides of all the doors, or is it an accessibility issue?

    Meridians have floor button in parallel with door button

    Interesting that other Bombardier-built trains (Class 170) have sensors covering the space between doors and push buttons in saloons.

    Noticed recently that many push buttons not working first push and thus will not reliably operate doors.

    All Class 220/221 are maintained under a full package contract by Bombardier at Three Rivers - Burton on Trent - Cross Country have no ability to change this detail as the 'owner' of trains requires that they are only modified to their terms, and DfT in turn sets specs.

    Follow through issue with XC asking if your experience is common and what are they doing about it, but also worth raising with Rail Safety Standards Board (ORR) as a possible operational issue with automatic doors on the connecting passageway between coaches.

    If responses are poor/inadequate cc Passenger Focus

  • 5 Dave H commented close 10:12 04 Sep 2011

    Just checked Virgin 221, Cross Country 220 and EMT 222 - all used on today's travels. A integral detail on the gangway side of the sliding doors is a push button housing welded in to the frame carrying the bellows (so its always been there), and push buttons inside the air-lock. The EMT trains have a floor push button on the door vestibule side of the corridor connection floor pads are notoriously unreliable in the harsh environment of any ground-based transport system - as proven by the early experience of Mk 3 coach automatic doors, and putting these in the lurching and undulating environmnt of the corridor connection.....try standing there on a rough bit of track or as the train enters a station.

    The other more common Bombardier product the Class 170 Turbostar and various Electrostar units use an infra-red detector mounted in the door portal inside the saloon which presumably sees a cone of space in the area - seems to work well - rather like the clear reflector discs and light source/detectors that are fitted to the external doors and stop them closing if they are blocked (at ankle height)

  • 6 CrossCountry Customer Relations responded to Alex Fenlon close 10:38 05 Sep 2011
    Dear FixMyTransport 

    Thank you for your email.  

    We welcome comments from our customers and ask that Alex
    Fenlon contact us directly on the phone number or email
    address below where our experienced customer relations team are
    able respond to the issues raised.  

    Kind regards 

    CrossCountry 

    5^th Floor, Cannon House 

    18 The Priory Queensway 

    Birmingham 

    B4 6BS 

    Email: [1][Crosscountry problem reporting email] 

    Phone: 08447 369 123 

    Fax: 0121 200 6005 

    show quoted sections
  • 7 Josh Smith commented close 22:58 11 Nov 2011

    Hullo Alex (et al.),

    I was boarding a CrossCountry train at Plymouth earlier this week, and the same thing happened to me! There was a bottleneck of people going through the carriage's interior doors, and after a while the door closed on me.

    Somewhat worryingly, it didn't seem to detect that it was trying to close on a fully grown, average weight adult (can you imagine a child in my position?), and didn't stop pushing against me until a passenger behind me pressed the button again.

    It seems like a really poor design decision. At the very least, I'd have thought there would be sensors to prevent the door closing when people are standing in the doorway.

    Did you ever hear back from CrossCountry on this? It'd be great to hear what they said.

    Cheers,

    Josh

  • 8 Peter Dixon commented close 12:30 13 Nov 2011

    Hello Alex

    How frustrating. I see that Cross Country have asked you not to use FixMyTransport for correspondence.

    We believe there is no good reason for an operator not to engage with its customers through the site, so our advice would be to write back (using the yellow 'email' button at the top of this page) and say that this is your preferred method of communication.

    I would advise that you respond to them by saying that you have personally written the email to them and that you will receive an email directly. However if you prefer to follow their own advice and take communication offline, please do come back and update us on any progress you've made. This will be a public record, plus it is a chance for others to add their support and discuss the issue.

    Kind regards

    anorak
    admin
  • 9 Alex Fenlon wrote to Crosscountry close 16:20 15 Nov 2011

    Dear Sir or Ma'am,

    I would prefer to use this portal as a method of communication so other travellers can see that you the TOC (Train Operating Company) are taking note of traveller's advice and are acting on them.

    It's better PR for you and shows you listen to your customers directly.

    Please could you respond on here please.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Alex Fenlon
    Wolverhampton

  • 10 Customer Relations responded to Alex Fenlon close 16:21 15 Nov 2011
    THIS IS AN AUTOMATED EMAIL FROM CROSSCOUNTRY

    Thank you for your email.  We will reply again soon with a
    unique reference number.  We aim to respond in full with 10
    working days.  If your email is urgent then please call us on
    08447 369 123. 

    Frequently Asked Questions: 

    Where can I get a cheaper train ticket?

    [1]www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk has many tips, tricks and tools
    to help you find the best deal.  We offer the same tickets as
    other ticket websites, such as theTrainline.com, for all
    journeys in Great Britain.  We also offer free methods of
    delivery (e-ticket or self service collection if e-ticket is not
    available) and we donÂ*t charge a booking fee. 

    How do I apply for a refund?

    If you havenÂ*t used your ticket and you booked it online with
    crosscountrytrains.co.uk just log onto My CrossCountry or a
    create an account using the same email address you entered when
    you booked your ticket.  From here, go to your booking history
    and select refund.  Remember, all Advance tickets are
    non-refundable.  Alternatively call us on 0844 811 0124 and say
    Â*existing bookingÂ*. 

    How do I change my ticket?

    You can change the date and time of your journey by paying the
    difference between yours and the next available fare by calling
    us on 0844 811 0124.  When you call just say Â*existing
    bookingÂ*.  We will charge a £10 administration fee for this
    service which we will deduct from the cost of the ticket you
    currently hold. 

    My train was late or cancelled Â* can I claim compensation?

    Yes, if CrossCountry caused a delay to your journey because your
    train was late or cancelled you can make a claim for
    compensation under our Delay Repay scheme.  Simply forward your
    original email to us with scanned copies of your tickets
    including your journey details and your full postal address. 
    For more information about delay repay click here:
    [2]http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Site...

    References

    Visible links
    1. http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/
    2. http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Site...
  • 11 Alex Fenlon added an update close 16:22 15 Nov 2011

    Lets see what happens. I am sick of watching people being crushed by doors! Particuarly Pregnant Women!

  • 12 Myf Nixon commented close 16:24 15 Nov 2011

    Thanks Alex - good luck!

    anorak
    admin
  • 13 CrossCountry Customer Relations responded to Alex Fenlon close 17:22 18 Nov 2011
    Dear Mr Fenlon  

    We are sorry that we have not been able to immediately answer
    your request.  We have assigned you case
    reference XC-0111116-BDC and will write again within the next 10
    working days. 

    Thank you for your patience. 

    Kind regards   

    CrossCountry  
    Customer Relations    

    CrossCountry 
    5th Floor, Cannon House 
    18 The Priory Queensway 
    Birmingham  
    B4 6BS   

    Email:  [1][Crosscountry problem reporting email]  
    Phone: 08447 369 123  (option 4) 
    Fax:  0121 200 6005  

    References

    Visible links
    1. mailto:[Crosscountry problem reporting email]  
  • 14 Alex Fenlon added an update close 09:51 19 Nov 2011

    Ohhh! This looks promising! Pregnant women or young children fear no more!

  • 15 CrossCountry Customer Relations responded to Alex Fenlon close 16:51 09 Dec 2011
    Dear Alex 

    Thank you for your patience, and please also forgive the delay,
    while I looked into this problem in more detail.  

    I am sorry you got trapped in the internal saloon doors in one
    of our Voyager trains.  The doors are designed to close
    every 15 seconds to help maintain a pleasant and comfortable
    environment within the saloon by ensuring the efficiency of the
    air conditioning system and minimising any external noise such
    as noise from the engine under the carriage.  

    Of course, there are times when the queue to leave the train
    leads through the internal doors and into the saloon.  So if a
    customer is stood between the doors when they attempt to close
    they may feel a slight squeeze.  For safety reasons the
    doors are designed to re-open if they feel an obstruction.  But
    they will attempt to close again.  

    We love the a infra-red sensor and pressure-pad's we have on our
    other fleets but they are designed to work specifically with
    that type of train.  I'm afraid the design of Voyager
    trains does not allow these to be retro-fitted without having to
    undertake a major re-design of the inner workings of the train. 
    That said, we have spoken with the train manufacturer to see if
    there are any work around that can be easily implemented.  While
    the response received has been negative our engineering team are
    committed to ensuring the most comfortable journey for our
    customers and will continue to look for a solution for you. 

    I am sorry this response is not more positive but I hope my
    reply helps.  

    Kind regards 

    Matt Foster 
    Customer Relations Manager 
    CrossCountry  

    show quoted sections
  • 16 Alex Fenlon wrote to CrossCountry Customer Relations close 17:00 09 Dec 2011

    Hello Matt,

    Thanks for your reply - I appreciate you taking the time in responding to the matter and giving me a reply.

    I can understand the frustration you have as an operator with BOMBARDIER, but I wish you and your engineering team the best of luck in continuing to find a solution. I can honestly say I will travel with cross country again not because you've taken the time to answer my query, but because you actually serve refreshments at seat as well!

    Thanks again for the informative reply.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Alex

    -----Original Message-----

    Dear Alex 
     
    Thank you for your patience, and please also forgive the delay,
    while I looked into this problem in more detail.  
      
    I am sorry you got trapped in the internal saloon doors in one
    of our Voyager trains.  The doors are designed to close
    every 15 seconds to help maintain a pleasant and comfortable
    environment within the saloon by ensuring the efficiency of the
    air conditioning system and minimising any external noise such
    as noise from the engine under the carriage.  
      
    Of course, there are times when the queue to leave the train
    leads through the internal doors and into the saloon.  So if a
    customer is stood between the doors when they attempt to close
    they may feel a slight squeeze.  For safety reasons the
    doors are designed to re-open if they feel an obstruction.  But
    they will attempt to close again.  
          
    We love the a infra-red sensor and pressure-pad's we have on our
    other fleets but they are designed to work specifically with
    that type of train.  I'm afraid the design of Voyager
    trains does not allow these to be retro-fitted without having to
    undertake a major re-design of the inner workings of the train. 
    That said, we have spoken with the train manufacturer to see if
    there are any work around that can be easily implemented.  While
    the response received has been negative our engineering team are
    committed to ensuring the most comfortable journey for our
    customers and will continue to look for a solution for you. 
     
    I am sorry this response is not more positive but I hope my
    reply helps.  
     
    Kind regards 
     
    Matt Foster 
    Customer Relations Manager 
    CrossCountry  
      
     

  • 17 Alex Fenlon added an update close 17:00 09 Dec 2011

    You see? Good things come to those who wait.

  • 18 Myf Nixon commented close 17:15 09 Dec 2011

    Good stuff Alex!

    anorak
    admin
  • 19 Customer Relations responded to Alex Fenlon close 17:27 09 Dec 2011
    THIS IS AN AUTOMATED EMAIL FROM CROSSCOUNTRY

    Thank you for your email.  We will reply again soon with a
    unique reference number.  We aim to respond in full with 10
    working days.  If your email is urgent then please call us on
    08447 369 123. 

    Frequently Asked Questions: 

    Where can I get a cheaper train ticket?

    [1]www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk has many tips, tricks and tools
    to help you find the best deal.  We offer the same tickets as
    other ticket websites, such as theTrainline.com, for all
    journeys in Great Britain.  We also offer free methods of
    delivery (e-ticket or self service collection if e-ticket is not
    available) and we donÂ*t charge a booking fee. 

    How do I apply for a refund?

    If you havenÂ*t used your ticket and you booked it online with
    crosscountrytrains.co.uk just log onto My CrossCountry or a
    create an account using the same email address you entered when
    you booked your ticket.  From here, go to your booking history
    and select refund.  Remember, all Advance tickets are
    non-refundable.  Alternatively call us on 0844 811 0124 and say
    Â*existing bookingÂ*. 

    How do I change my ticket?

    You can change the date and time of your journey by paying the
    difference between yours and the next available fare by calling
    us on 0844 811 0124.  When you call just say Â*existing
    bookingÂ*.  We will charge a £10 administration fee for this
    service which we will deduct from the cost of the ticket you
    currently hold. 

    My train was late or cancelled Â* can I claim compensation?

    Yes, if CrossCountry caused a delay to your journey because your
    train was late or cancelled you can make a claim for
    compensation under our Delay Repay scheme.  Simply forward your
    original email to us with scanned copies of your tickets
    including your journey details and your full postal address. 
    For more information about delay repay click here:
    [2]http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Site...

    References

    Visible links
    1. http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/
    2. http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/Site...
  • 20 Si Lo commented close 07:35 06 Feb 2012

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but a pressure mat system is unlikely to come back into use for a few reasons.

    1) When somebody places luggage on the mat, it holds the doors open, allowing noise and smell to drift through from the vestibules to the carriages.

    2) Passengers stood in the vestibule would continually trip the door opening mat and the doors would be constantly opening and closing, which would be an annoyance to other passengers.

    3) Cost. There's a big re-shuffle with train franchises coming up, I can't imagine XC spending money on retrofitting trains when they may not have an extended franchise.

    4) Disability compliance. The push buttons on trains are surrounded by lights to ensure people who are short of sight can operate the doors,

    6) Maintanence. It's something

  • 21 Keir Yorke commented close 12:03 31 Oct 2013

    Hello Alex

    About 10 weeks ago, while travelling on a CrossCountry Voyager Train, I was making my way through the train to get my seat. As I walking through the 2 automated connecting doors (I was following someone in front of me) the doors closed upon me, my foot was trapped, and as a consequence, I fell forward, causing a rupture within the Achilles' tendon. There was no warning signs informing me when these doors will close, the doors did not reopen after closing on me, they had to be pulled apart.

    Having read what you and other people have said, I am amazed that CrossCountry knew about this problem in 2011 and having acknowledged there was a problem, have still done nothing to resolve it, not even to the point of putting up signs warning people that the doors will close after a certain amount of time.

    Regards
    Keir

  • 22 Keir Yorke commented close 20:52 31 Oct 2013

    In one of the comments made by CrossCountry trains, they say the connecting doors automatically close after 15 seconds. This is incorrect. My friend has made videos of these doors closing on 3 different occasions, on 3 different trains. The first video times the doors closing after 9 seconds, the second 2 videos time the doors closing after 10 seconds. Having viewed the videos, it is clear that CrossCountry assertion that the doors close after 15 seconds is grossly misleading.

    Keir

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  • started 30 August 2011
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Train route between Birmingham New Street and Wolverhampton
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