“Please help me persuade Arriva Trains Wales to fix this: Letter of complaint” – Bethan Williams

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Bethan Williams

Dear Sir/Madam,
I wondered if you could help me. I have written the following complaint to British Transport Police, Arriva Trains Wales and to Watchdog. I wondered if you would be able to help in any way as I have had no replies so far.
Kind regards,
Bethan Williams.




Dear Sir/Madam,

I wish to make a complaint regarding an incident which happened this morning at Cardiff Queen St. Station. I started my journey from Llandaf station to Cardiff Queen St. I was running late for my train and as I approached the steps to my platform at Llandaf, the train had arrived at 08:26am (there were also a queue of people waiting to purchase a ticket at the station). I got on the train and throughout the journey there were no train conductor’s to be seen to sell tickets (perhaps due to the fact that the train was very busy with many having to stand, including myself).
I arrived at Cardiff Queen St Station at 08:36am and approached a member of your staff to purchase a ticket by the barriers to exit. I bought a return ticket from Llandaf and soon after I was approached by a tall, Asian man in a suit who asked to see my ticket, without showing any form of I.D. He took the ticket from my hands and stopped me. He very briefly showed me a badge, but did not explain:
- Who he was?
- What company he worked for?
- What his job role was?

He then told me that I was in breach of a law because I did not purchase my ticket at Llandaf. I explained that there was no way for me to do this, for the reasons listed above, however he told me this was no excuse. The station was extremely busy at the time, however this man made no effort to find a private area to ask me the personal questions that he did, including; what my occupation was, my mobile number, form of photo I.D. He did not explain that the information would be kept confidential under the data protection act. He also asked me a leading question which appeared to try and get me to admit that I would have broken the law had there been no barriers;
“Would you agree that if there were no barriers or train staff to buy a ticket from, you would have walked on through without buying a ticket, yes?”. I disagreed with him on this, stating that I would have bought a return ticket from the ticket machine at the station, as I would need to travel home.
As I looked around I saw that 2 other young women were being questioned by men who were similarly dressed. I also know of 2 other young women from work and through a friend who were questioned. I would like to know:
- On what basis was I discriminated against and pulled over to be questioned?
- Why did they appear to only select young women?
- Why were other people who also purchased tickets at Queen St station and also came from Llandaf station, allowed to go straight through the barriers without being questioned?

It was a very distressing, humiliating experience, with many people looking over at us as this man made me feel guilty before proven innocent. It also made me 15 minutes late for work. After taking down my information, he then told me he will be keeping my train ticket which I do not feel he should have done. He did not tell me for what purpose he needed my ticket, or give me a form of receipt for it. He told me that I would receive a letter through the post telling me what further action would be taken.
I am very concerned about this and do not understand how I could be prosecuted after purchasing my train ticket at the only possible time I was able to do so, how does that make me a criminal?

Please could you explain who these people are, who they work for and how I can take this further? Also why aren’t there any warnings to purchase tickets before entering Queen St Station?

My train ticket number is 054746574185670

Yours faithfully,
Bethan Williams

Problem History

  • 1 Bethan Williams reported the issue on FixMyTransport. close 16:35 13 Dec 2011
  • 2 Bethan Williams wrote to Arriva Trains Wales close 16:35 13 Dec 2011

    Here is the letter that Bethan Williams wrote.

    Letter of complaint

    Dear Sir/Madam,
    I wondered if you could help me. I have written the following complaint to British Transport Police, Arriva Trains Wales and to Watchdog. I wondered if you would be able to help in any way as I have had no replies so far.
    Kind regards,
    Bethan Williams.




    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I wish to make a complaint regarding an incident which happened this morning at Cardiff Queen St. Station. I started my journey from Llandaf station to Cardiff Queen St. I was running late for my train and as I approached the steps to my platform at Llandaf, the train had arrived at 08:26am (there were also a queue of people waiting to purchase a ticket at the station). I got on the train and throughout the journey there were no train conductor’s to be seen to sell tickets (perhaps due to the fact that the train was very busy with many having to stand, including myself).
    I arrived at Cardiff Queen St Station at 08:36am and approached a member of your staff to purchase a ticket by the barriers to exit. I bought a return ticket from Llandaf and soon after I was approached by a tall, Asian man in a suit who asked to see my ticket, without showing any form of I.D. He took the ticket from my hands and stopped me. He very briefly showed me a badge, but did not explain:
    - Who he was?
    - What company he worked for?
    - What his job role was?

    He then told me that I was in breach of a law because I did not purchase my ticket at Llandaf. I explained that there was no way for me to do this, for the reasons listed above, however he told me this was no excuse. The station was extremely busy at the time, however this man made no effort to find a private area to ask me the personal questions that he did, including; what my occupation was, my mobile number, form of photo I.D. He did not explain that the information would be kept confidential under the data protection act. He also asked me a leading question which appeared to try and get me to admit that I would have broken the law had there been no barriers;
    “Would you agree that if there were no barriers or train staff to buy a ticket from, you would have walked on through without buying a ticket, yes?”. I disagreed with him on this, stating that I would have bought a return ticket from the ticket machine at the station, as I would need to travel home.
    As I looked around I saw that 2 other young women were being questioned by men who were similarly dressed. I also know of 2 other young women from work and through a friend who were questioned. I would like to know:
    - On what basis was I discriminated against and pulled over to be questioned?
    - Why did they appear to only select young women?
    - Why were other people who also purchased tickets at Queen St station and also came from Llandaf station, allowed to go straight through the barriers without being questioned?

    It was a very distressing, humiliating experience, with many people looking over at us as this man made me feel guilty before proven innocent. It also made me 15 minutes late for work. After taking down my information, he then told me he will be keeping my train ticket which I do not feel he should have done. He did not tell me for what purpose he needed my ticket, or give me a form of receipt for it. He told me that I would receive a letter through the post telling me what further action would be taken.
    I am very concerned about this and do not understand how I could be prosecuted after purchasing my train ticket at the only possible time I was able to do so, how does that make me a criminal?

    Please could you explain who these people are, who they work for and how I can take this further? Also why aren’t there any warnings to purchase tickets before entering Queen St Station?

    My train ticket number is 054746574185670

    Yours faithfully,
    Bethan Williams

  • 3 Dave H commented close 19:48 13 Dec 2011

    For some London operators you can get an instant 'permit to travel' from a separate and simple machine, at the press of a button. This is presented to the ticket selling window or person at the end of the journey to prove where you boarded the train and the time you boarded. With busy routes like the Valley Lines there is a role for validation arrangements where queues form at ticket windows or ticket issue machines.

  • 4 Dave H commented close 20:38 16 Dec 2011

    It does occur to me that some train operators do contract out some enforcement and security tasks to 'security operators' the quality of such firms is seriously variable - ranging from the slick operation one see from the core Royal protection teams (you barely notice them and any 'trouble' is quietly marched through with a friendly but immovable escort on each shoulder) to the overweight close cropped 'bear' who might happily lay out anyone who dares to resist them physically in any way.

    Myf may well recall the scenes when the train operator at brighton decided to enforce cycle bans (on the major bike ride, and later on peak time trains) and hired in heavies, resulting in unpleasant scenes at Brighton when staff retreated to leave these guys, with no knowledge of the rail system obstructing bona fide travellers wanting to go along the coast rather than back to London. A costly exercise and a very bad result in PR terms on every occasion. I've noted contractors wearing their company's uniform being used in Manchester on a number of occasions (I've also seen a railway worker still wearing his train company's jacket and tie working as a security patrol in a local shopping centre - naughty)

    I suspect that you were dealt with by either a contractor or a staff member who does not normally handle the public at the 'coal face' with no close knowledge of how the Valley Lines station and trains can be struggling to sell tickets during the morning peak (regular staff would have understood your story directly from their own knowledge of the services). As it seem you are a regular traveller why not look out for these guys when they next appear, and either go over and ask for their i/d directly or ask the station manager/uniformed railway workers to tell you who they are and whether they are on the station with the railway operators authority to approach passengers.

  • 5 Rich F commented close 11:35 19 Dec 2011

    Hello Bethan, virtually the exact same thing happened to me last week as well - except I was travelling from Cadoxton (in Barry) to Queen Street. The bloke who stopped us works for Transport Investigations Ltd - they're a separate company carrying out 'revenue protection' work for Arriva Trains Wales.

    Have a look on the Consumer Action Group website - type in Transport Investigations Ltd in the search bar on there & you'll find a load of threads with some useful info. I've written to Arriva to complain & I'll also be writing to my local MP. Hopefully, if enough people complain then Arriva will do something about this.

    Just wanted to empathise with you & give you a bit more info.

    Regards,

    Rich

  • 6 Bethan Williams commented close 15:53 19 Dec 2011

    Hi Rich. I wrote to customer services at Arriva and have now heard back from them, telling me they're going to ask the revenue staff to drop proceedings against me. They apologised but did not address the issues of how I was targeted and the way I was treated. They have not offered any form of compensation where I know they have responded to other letters of complaints with vouchers and gift hampers! They have had a lot of complaints and I think its a great idea to write to your MP. Good luck, hope you get the same result!

  • 7 Rich F commented close 16:16 19 Dec 2011

    Hi Bethan, that's great news! Can I ask who you wrote to exactly? Did you e-mail Arriva or did you post a letter? I've e-mailed them but I haven't had a response yet. I'm assuming they've been deluged with similar complaints & that's why they're taking a while to reply. If I get a reply I'll update this thread just in case there's other people out there in the same situation.

  • 8 Myf Nixon commented close 12:02 20 Dec 2011

    Hello Bethan,

    I am glad that you've had proceedings dropped, but really, what a thing to have had to go through, and with no apology. From the reading of this thread, it sounds to me as if Arriva made an error of judgment somewhere along the line in employing an external company and not fully training them up in the level of politeness and leeway that ought to be expected when interacting with passengers.

    If you'd like to press for a proper explanation, please do feel free to recontact Arriva, either by clicking the yellow 'email' button at the top of this page, or by creating a completely new campaign - eg, to ask Arriva to stop using companies which operate with strongarm methods. A voucher or a gift hamper is all very well, but it'd be better if you could get the reply that they are going to stop these tactics and retrain the staff.

    Richard, yes please do come back and update the page with your experiences - as you say, it may well be useful for others.

    anorak
    admin
  • 9 MAC GILL commented close 21:06 22 Dec 2011

    I hear that Arriva Trains Wales have actually brought in a policy of enforcing the rule that everyone must buy a ticket before getting on a train because of high levels of abuse of the system.

    It always has been the case that railway regulations say you must get the ticket first and it is an offence not to do so, but it seems they have not got sufficient capacity at the ticket offices to always cope.

    It is worth looking at the University of Glamorgan website because a lot of students got caught out and the University have contacted the train company and posted the reply they got as advice for everyone to see

    Arriva have to make it easier to get tickets or more innocent people might easily get caught out.

  • 10 MAC GILL commented close 21:30 22 Dec 2011

    This is the link to the bit on the University site

    http://glamlifenews.glam.ac.uk/news/...ctions-trains/

    I think they are wrong about being able to charge a penalty fare but the rest is correct from what I've read.

    If they are going to enforce these rules they have to put clear signs up and improve the ticket selling service.

  • 11 MAC GILL commented close 21:52 22 Dec 2011

    Sorry for duplication, I didn't copy that link properly. Here is the correct one

    http://glamlifenews.glam.ac.uk/news/2011/dec/02/update-about-ticket-inspections-trains/

  • 12 Kevin Rankin commented close 12:42 08 Jan 2012

    Hi bethan, as mac has said the letter of the law states that it is your repsonsibility to purchase a ticket before you travel. Unfortunately running late isnt an excuse. You could have run down to the guard at his end of the train and purchased a ticket from him. As for the legality of penalty fares it has yet to be dealt with in court so case law is a debatable issue however you could have been prosecuted under existing railway bylaws.In this case bylaw 18 which can be found here.....
    http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/legislation/regs/railwaysbyelaws.pdf

    Which is why the enforcement company concerned are prosecuting people as well as civil fines. Certainly there have been complaints about how they have dealt with people and I have no doubt that in some cases the people affected do have a case but it remains a fact that there is a lot of fraud on the valley lines. For example when barriers in cardiff were installed a few years ago revenue went up 6 figures. In pontypridd for the first month it went up 5 figures.

  • 13 lisa matthews commented close 10:59 18 Jan 2012

    Hi Bethan, Exactly the same thing happened to me. I had the letter from TIL through so far Arriva have made no commitment to have the charges dropped in my case.

    At the station (Llandaf) there is no clear information stating that, contrary to very common practice, purchasing tickets at the revenue tables provided by ATW at peak times at the destination station or when changing platforms, is not acceptable. A ‘clampdown’ might have been better if it followed an awareness campaign informing passengers that using the revenue tables/getting a ticket on board are not legitimate options? Lack of information, unchallenged norms and staff behaviour that reaffirms the belief that you can buy tickets at the revenue tables and from the guards.

    Also throughout this whole process and all over Christmas I have had no information on what this prosecution would entail, what would happen to me throughout these legal proceedings and what impact this might have on my hitherto clean record. Will I get a criminal record – I’m still not sure if this is a possibility? Whether I need to get legal representation when this goes to court I am still every bit as confused now as I was when I was accosted by a member of TIL staff when I was buying my ticket at the revenue table at Queen Street when this whole process started.

    I have just contacted TIL again and replied to ATW and copied in mt Assembly Member -more owing to my experience of this confusing and unsatisfactory process rather than making a representation of my own case - I live in the same constituency as Llandaf station and I think this is something Julie Morgan AM should be aware of, as I imagine many of her commuting constituents are liable to fall foul of the same ignorance regarding tickets and subsequent stress and anxiety as I.

  • 14 Bruce Simpson commented close 03:57 22 Jan 2012

    I have received a threatening letter from TIL on Friday

    I was traveling on university business, so my travel was paid for by the University. I had quite innocently misplaced my tickets and found them minutes after my name and address were taken by railway staff. I felt embarassed and foolish throughout.

    I must admit I was puzzled that I was not asked to pay a penalty fare, and was basically free to go, up to the point where I've received this accusatory piece of garbage in the post, despite my fare having been paid.

    Had I not provided them with my details, I would have been committing an offence of fraud. The University has a behaviour code, and I would risk expulsion, not to mention committing a criminal offence of perjury, if I lied about this. My colleague even witnessed everything!

    If this company really is engaging in bully-boy practices to basically extort money from ordinary people, it must be stopped. I find it hard to believe myself, but there you go.

  • 15 Bruce Simpson commented close 22:20 24 Jan 2012

    I have taken professional legal advice on this. It was largely in line with how I planned to respond to the allegation anyway, but I wanted to be sure I could get a defence solicitor easily in case they do try to escalate this to court.

    I won't go into the specifics - that is for the lawyers. Suffice to say that I would have a defence under the same legislation TIL claim they have 'sufficient evidence' to prosecute me under.

  • 16 zoe cliffordO'Shea commented close 21:33 07 Feb 2012

    Help the same thing happened to me after travelling from Taffs Well on the 14th of December, I was not as lucky as Bethan though and have recieved a letter advising that the case may go to magistrates court. I am very frightened.

  • 17 swinkle star commented close 22:40 07 Feb 2012

    Hi

    This very thing has happened to my daugher and Arriva Trains Wales are now threatening legal action

    I am now going to contact Consumer Wales to see what advice they can offer

  • 18 Bruce Simpson commented close 04:30 08 Feb 2012

    If you're in a similar situation, the important thing is not to panic.

    A few things don't quite add up about the situation or the letter I received. I can't discuss these here because they would amount to a legal defence.

    Leaving the prosecution element of the dispute aside, which largely seems to be used as a stick to threaten people with, I am treating this as a commercial dispute like any other.

    The thing is that it's pretty poor practice, in any genuine legal disagreement, to immediately threaten litigation (or prosecution). Court should only be seen as a last resort, whatever the nature of the disagreement, and courts generally take this into account.

    I have not yet had a reply from either TIL or Customer Relations Cross Country.

    Because I was on University business, the University has had to be involved. A local solicitor has seen all correspondence. I've been advised not to do anything more than provide TIL with full documentation that my travel that day was paid for, and that solicitor action is not yet necessary.

    My experience with ScotRail and Virgin Trains couldn't be more different. I have been in situations where I would have been stranded if they hadn't arranged for alternative transport or accomodation.

    I can't comment further on my specific case for legal reasons, but I will add that all this information could be easily verified by a train company.

    Judging from the surge in complaints I've seen about this particular firm, someone is bound to notice.

    Harassing your own customers generally results in a backlash.

    It's also socially irresponsible, because I can think of the rather chilling effect a letter worded in this way would have on a vulnerable member of society.

  • 19 Bruce Simpson commented close 18:01 11 Feb 2012

    I have updated my own campaign page:
    http://www.fixmytransport.com/campaigns/acknowledge-that-i-am-a-genuine-fare

    I may have to escalate this to a solicitor ASAP. I fully intend to ensure my local MP, Sir Menzies Campbell QC, is aware of how this organisation is treating me.

  • 20 Bruce Simpson commented close 10:55 23 Feb 2012

    My PhD supervisor is fed up of me bringing this up; he asked me to take this trip in the first place. Let's just say that I might not have to pay for legal counsel out of my own pocket.

    Others may not have the same level of support, so I want to make sure that what I have discovered is shared. Those of you dealing with this lot may find these links useful.

    http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/abuse_of_process/#b01

    Whilst the CPS themselves normally wouldn't bother bringing a prosecution like this, a few points are relevant to TIL's conduct, especially re: Delay. The Court of Appeal is very clear on what this implies - prejudice - and magistrates have to consider this advice.

    In my case CCTV evidence clearly showing I was travelling with tickets would not be available to my defence counsel if a case were taken to court; I contacted East Midland Trains, and they said that they cannot provide CCTV evidence from stations unless the request is made within 30 days of the incident.

    http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/46.html

    Ferguson vs British Gas. TIL have sufficiently angered me with their cheap tactics that I am considering litigation for the distress they have inflicted, and disruption caused to my studies.

    Do remember that a few of TIL's clients, including CrossCountry, are losing money every day (this from the company which tries to charge 1000 UKP for a rail ticket).

    Perhaps privatisation of British Rail was a mistake? Let's do everything we can to aid the correcting effects of the free market system.

  • 21 MAC GILL commented close 07:59 27 Feb 2012

    I have not read this thread for a while so just catching up.

    I am a bit confused by Bruce Simpsons post where he says 'I found my tickets a few minutes later'. As I understand it there is a straightforward offence of failing to show a ticket

    I have to ask why you did not go and show the ticket to whoever you say reported you if you were still on the train?

    If not, have you sent the ticket to the rail company to get the report quashed?

    If not, I don't think you will get very far because although you seem to be saying that you think the rail company are abusing process, it seems clear that anyone looking at what you have said dispassionately would have to consider that there is an element of contributory negligence on the travellers part too.

  • 22 Bruce Simpson commented close 08:35 27 Feb 2012

    MAC, you are suggesting that it would have been reasonable to run through several crowded train carriages, with a loaded bag, collar the RPI and show him the tickets, minutes before my train stopped at Sheffield, without missing my stop.

    I speculate that even if had I managed to do so on the day, he would have refused to tear up the 'MG11' form.

    As the company involved waited nearly 2 months before laying any notice before action- do you honestly think I would have kept my ticket stubs, if I honestly had no reason to believe that they intended to take further action at that time? The RPI behaved fairly innocuously, and the BTP were not involved.

    This thread here describes similar circumstances, however the lady concerned had issues of ticket validity:
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3692231

    I have provided all receipts available to me, and obtained the Booking File from the University Travel Service. How could I reasonably be expected to do more than that, without knowing about these bye-laws in advance?

    We have considered this matter in depth. As railway bye-laws seem to be a somewhat specialist field, our local solicitors have not been able to give us solid advice in this area.

  • 23 MAC GILL commented close 10:01 27 Feb 2012

    Perhaps sadly, the answer to your question is 'Yes, it would be considered reasonable to make every effort to show the valid ticket'

    Your speculation is just that, any court would be asked to decide on the evidence, not speculation

    It is up to the traveller to show the ticket. That has been tested by the courts hundred if not thousands of times. Rail ticket receipts state on them 'Not valid for travel' or words to that effect. That is to stop people buying one ticket and handing it to a friend and just showing their receipt saying 'I can't find my ticket, but I have paid look.'

    I am really surprised that your solicitor could not see that from the clear wording of the bylaw

  • 24 Rich F commented close 20:43 13 Mar 2012

    Just an update on my situation as I'd previously contributed to this thread (see early thread posts above).

    Back in December I'd been stopped at Queen Street station by one of the Transport Investigations mob - who accused me of fare evasion.

    After going back & forth with ATW - they eventually agreed to instruct Transport Investigations Ltd to close my file & take no further action against me. In my e-mails to ATW Customer Relations I copied in my local MP & MEP as well as the ATW Director of Customer Relations & the ATW Managing Director.

    I also made reference to this thread & the fact that another ATW passenger in a near identical situation to mine had the case against them dropped.

    Although ATW informed me that my case was now closed I then received a letter from Transport Investigations Ltd threatening me with prosecution!

    After another strongly worded e-mail to ATW - they again informed me that there had been an 'error' & I'd received the letter by mistake.

    This whole 'revenue protection' exercise has been a PR disaster for ATW from start to finish. I totally agree with one of the posts on here about the letters from Transport Investigations Ltd being "socially irresponsible" - as neither ATW or Transport Investigations Ltd have thought about the affect such a letter could have on a vulnerable individual.

    Good luck to anyone out there taking on ATW & Transport Investigations Ltd...hopefully they'll be some more positive outcomes.

  • 25 Dave H commented close 20:09 14 Mar 2012

    Bethan et al - no apology sounds like an unsatisfactory response to a complaint made to the rail operator, you can then legitimately pass this on to Passenger Focus, who collate regular reports on how the rail operators are performing, and take up cases like this where appropriate.

    It isn't clear what some people are receiving, but I've seen a Notice of Possible Prosecution sent to a few folk who have run foul of SW Trains 'redcaps' in some cases wrongly making accusations, but again rarely issuing apologies when they are wrong.

    I'm wiondering if sending a Notice of Possible/Intended Prosecution after their client has already sent a letter advising that the case has been dropped might amount to harassment? Obviously there are some posting here who have worked out more of the legal detail, but if several people have the same case to answer could there be a class action?

  • 26 Bethan Williams commented close 10:22 15 Mar 2012

    Rich: the EXACT same thing happened to me! After being told that the case was dropped against me, I also received a letter from Transport Investigations telling me that they would be prosecuting me. After emailing the MD of ATW, they also told me that there had been an 'error' and that apparantly the letter was meant for a different Bethan Williams. They told me that they'd closed the case against this other 'Bethan Williams' and left mine open by mistake. Ridiculous! Has anyone else been contacted by South Wales Echo and X-Ray about this? I think I might get in touch with them!

  • 27 BOB DOWN commented close 17:03 02 May 2012

    Fare Evasion is high at the moment. It's impossible to determine the difference between the honest and the dishonest. I can speak from Experience, as I work on a gateline in the UK. I've had Mums with pushchairs, business types,pensioners and a few weeks ago a solicitor all abuse me, to avoid payment of the fare.
    Sadly the only way of not being stopped/questioned is to be in possession of a valid ticket at all times (as per the conditions of carriage) You can buy tickets in advance for any date, and also get 7 day, 1 month or more season tickets.
    Running late is unacceptable, I had to queue at Morrisons earlier to pay for my shopping, they were busy, but that gave me no right to walk out and pay another time. Where I work a lot of our regular daily commuters buy the ticket for the following day on the way home, usually there is no queue, and it takes seconds. Stops all the hassle of queuing in the morning.Most ticket machines have a "buy for tomorrow" button which goes live after midday.
    I don't like to hear of anyone being treated disrespectfully, however I have been assaulted, verbally abused, spat at, and threatened, just asking people for their ticket, and I am very fair, and use my discretion quite often, and I'm not confrontational. 2 staff were stabbed on the c2c network before Christmas just asking people for their tickets.
    If it seems that you are being treated harshly by any rail ticket examiner, it's probably just the way they handle everyone, being extra nice is usually thrown back in your face.
    Just my opinions, thanks. Bob

  • 28 Sofia Athanasiou commented close 12:17 09 Sep 2012

    Hi all,
    Wonder if you can guive me some advice, back in December last year i caught the train from Caerphilly to CQS as i had to run for the train at Caerphilly and there was a big queue at the ticket office i boarded the train, there was no conductor present on the train for me to purchase a ticket so i purchased one at the manned machines upon arrival at CQS, i was then approached by a gentleman from TIL who was very rude and unprofessional and took my details, i explained the situation to him however he seemed to take little or no notice. I then received a letter from TIL asking me to explain my ' version of events & why i didnt purchase a ticket until arriving in CQS' to which i replied. I also in the mean time had made a complaint to arriva trains wales for the way i had been handled by TIL. i have had no further correspondance from TIL since December/Jan until today 08.09.12 when i received a letter from a debt agency called EXCEL stsating i owed them £323.50 due to this alleged 'offence' and that if i do not pay it in 7 days i will owe them an additional £200+ and be prosecuted.
    Obviously i am very worried and as i have had no correspondence atall since the original letter back last year and moved address since the 'incident' i wondered if anyone has any advice on what i should do as i dont see why i should have to pay this??

    Thanks in Advance

  • 29 Dave H commented close 11:42 30 Dec 2012

    Perhaps one answer of this continues to happen to a group left queuing when the train is about to depart. Go and sit in the open doorway of the train until a member of staff asks you to let the doors close, at which point you ask that they sell you a ticket to enable you to travel without penalty, or give you permission to travel and pay on arrival.

    Obviously this works best if the action is taken by all those affected

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Cardiff Queen Street Rail Station in Cardiff operated by Arriva Trains Wales
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