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Initial problem

To whom it may concern,

I got a train from darwen to manchester as i often do on November 15th at around 9.47am. The conductor asked me for a ticket and i said i didnt have one and that i would like to purchase one, using my 16-25 railcard. The conductor then began shouting at me on a carriage full of people, calling me 'stupid and deaf' and refused to allow me to use my railcard as it 'must be used at a ticket office'. When i politely replied there was no ticket office at Darwen train station, he replied 'I dont care'. After paying full price I checked the Terms and Conditions of my railcard. It says tickets SHOULD be bought at an office, but not that they MUST. How this is possible living in a town without a ticket office I am unsure. The conductor then began shouting, at the top of his voice, whilst walking up and down the carriages asking for tickets. My experience was both embarassing and uncomfortable I am am extremely concerned with the way this conductor acted. When I got off the train I asked the conductor for his name, but he laughed and refused. This is completely unnaceptable.

  • By Joshua Holden on 16 Nov 2011
  • Sent to Northern Rail on 16 Nov 2011
  • 1 Julian Walker added an update close 13:39 16 Nov 2011

    Have you kept your ticket? This will help Northern Rail to identify the conductor in question and show that you were issued with a full-price ticket when you should have had a railcard discount.

    There are no facilities at Darwen Station for issuing tickets, therefore full railcard discounts are available on the train and you are entitled to a refund of the difference.

  • 2 Peter Dixon added an update close 22:10 16 Nov 2011

    I do not want to get involved in the ins and outs as I am not able to find out the complete story from start to finish as we only have one side of the story.

    The Railway Byelaws can actually be used to help your case where you believe a ticket is being missold. It does require you to have a grasp of them though. As Section 18(3)(i) says, you are not in breach if there are no facilities to sell a ticket. In order to sell you a ticket, the person must the "authorised person" under section 21(4). As an enforcer of the Byelaw (eg selling or requesting to see tickets, they must produce a form of identifcation when requested to do so. Such identification shall state the name of their employer and shall contain a means of identifying the authorised person.

    Therefore, failure to provide identification should be tackled.


    18. Ticketless travel in Non-Compulsory Ticket Areas

    (1)In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel
    (2) A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person.

    (3) No person shall be in breach of Byelaw 18(1) or 18(2) if:

    (i) there were no facilities in working order for the issue or validation of any ticket at the time when, and the station where, he began his journey; or
    (ii) there was a notice at the station where he began his journey permitting journeys to be started without a valid ticket; or
    (iii) an authorised person gave him permission to travel without a valid ticket.

    21. Unauthorised buying or selling of tickets

    (1) Subject to Byelaw 21(4), no person shall sell or buy any ticket.
    (2) Subject to Byelaw 21(4), no person shall transfer or receive any unused or partly used ticket, intending that any person shall use it for travelling unless the conditions of use for the ticket specifically permit such transfer.
    (3) Subject to Byelaw 21(4), no person shall knowingly use any ticket, which has been obtained in breach of Byelaw 21.
    (4) The sale or transfer by, or the purchase or receipt from, an authorised person in the course of his duties or from an authorised ticket machine is excepted from the provisions of Byelaw 21.

    23 (3) Identification of authorised persons

    An authorised person who is exercising any power conferred on him by any of
    these Byelaws shall produce a form of identification when requested to do so
    and such identification shall state the name of his employer and shall contain
    a means of identifying the authorised person

  • 3 Myf Nixon added an update close 17:12 13 Dec 2011

    Hi Joshua,

    Did you ever receive a reply from Northern Rail? Would love to know what it was, if so.

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